I mentioned in an earlier post, once dressing in a slinky, sexy piece of lingerie, and my vanilla boyfriend saying, “You don’t need to wear that stuff.” Sigh.
When I would throw something across my eyes, and attempt to pretend it was a blindfold, he would pull it off, with a terse, “Don’t you want to look at me?” Sigh again.
As many of you are probably aware, explanations are pointless, and recently, a couple of incidents started me thinking.
In an effort to explain how I see myself as a submissive, and my thoughts about D/s, I sent some friends a couple of links to some D/s sites. They informed me, that to them, these sites were pornographic.
I found it an enlightening and extremely interesting comment. In their eyes, images of women in bondage, wearing collars, dressed in all manner of titillating attire, was pornographic. To me, and I suspect, to most of you, these same images are artful, beautiful, erotic, tantalizing and sensuous.
This was a clear example of the perception of a vanilla mindset, vs the reality of what D/s actually is to those of us in the lifestyle.
Elizabeth’s Education is a book that is, well, in my humble opinion, a bit over the top.
(I don’t know what happens to me when I write novels based in Merry Olde England, but there is a devilish imp that takes over and creates all kinds of naughty scenarios, but I digress).
Elizabeth’s Education certainly isn’t for everyone. There is a serious disclaimer/warning in the front of the book, and the cover suggests it is a book involving, among other things, corporal punishment. In spite of all the warnings, there have been a couple of nasty reviews, one suggesting that I am depraved.
Depraved? Little Miss Maggie Carpenter depraved? Perhaps I am, though why someone would buy a book, clearly labeled BDSM and sporting warnings on the opening pages, bewilders me, but again – an example of the perception, vs the reality.
What the vanilla world perceives as depraved, we see as exciting, compelling, and deliciously decadent.
I was asked today, if a Dominant man could have a successful relationship with a vanilla woman. My response was, that it would probably, ultimately fail. As a submissive, having suffered through the frustration of a vanilla relationship, I can’t imagine I’ll ever do it again.
The question – “Why do you need a.b.and c. Why can’t you just be normal?” can never be satisfactorily answered, because the perception Mr. (or Miss) Vanilla has, can never be their reality, because the reality for them, simply does not exist.
Or am I wrong?
https://www.amazon.com/author/maggiecarpenter
How many subs are embarrassed to ask their vanilla husbands or boyfriends to spank them. When I was younger lol, I seemed to gravitate to a man who loves to spank but I didn’t have to ask. I did not marry until I was 42 and my husband of 27 years is a gentle, sweet man (darn it) who is now 88 and frail. I will be 70 next month. Is it too late for me? At least I can read yours and other writers and have wonderful fantasy. If my husband was younger and knew how much money I was spending on these stories he would probably spank, at least that is one of my fantasy. Laurel PS. I love your books.
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Laurel: THANK YOU – your kind words about my books are so very much appreciated.
It’s interesting, isn’t it, the fear attached to the almighty question, “How will he/she judge me.” My first D/s relationship was completely innocent. i.e. neither of us knew what we were doing. It was just what we did and we loved it. I had no idea it was such a ‘thing’ until it ended, and I was thrust into the vanilla world. OUCH. What a bumpy landing that was.
It has been my unfortunate experience, that there is little tolerance or understanding from a vanilla partner. Perhaps their fears prevent them from experimenting, but I have come to believe that if it’s not in you, it’s not in you. Period.
It’s never too late, Laurel. Keep the faith. 🙂
I worried that this was the case too, which kept me from opening up to my sweet, gentle husband about it for years. And while progress has been slow, the vanilla has become spicy, and his hand, much more firm!! I agree that if it’s not in you, it’s just not. But I also believe it’s in a lot more men who don’t realize it’s there. It’s in their nature to be dominant and powerful. They often just need help accepting that about themselves.
You are fortunate, and I agree that there are doubtless many who have hidden desires, and it just takes the right person and/or circumstances, for their needs to be realized. (The concept for Covert Cravings, btw). I’ve not been quite so lucky with the ‘vanilla’ men I’ve dated. They have been completely vanilla, and horrified at the mere suggestion of a blindfold, or bondage, or a smack on the butt.
Perhaps the closeness and love you share with your husband, created a foundation from which you have been able to build. Slow can be good. Very happy for you both. Thank you for the read, and the comment. I hope you’ll come back again.
I think if anyone in my vanilla world knew just how I would like to live my life and how I am working towards this goal they would definitely think I am depraved. (There are a few who live a different kind of BDSM lifestyle that would think my goals are pretty tame). I used to find images of women in bondage or sexy appetising attire intimidating and to be honest I was scared, absolutely freaking terrified of the feeling that arose deep within me, not just arousal but that something else that I have now allowed myself to be honest about; I wanted to be like those highly erotic beautiful women.
I am in a ‘vanilla’ relationship and I have put the difficult proposition to my man that I would like to transform this relationship into a D/s one but I don’t think I could have done it without his innate interest in ‘kink’ and that special something that makes a man (or woman) a Dominant. I sensed it way back when we met and it smelt terrifying and deliciously enticing all at once. I think our vanilla relationship has probably not been just vanilla but until my need to name the elephant in the room and allow us to be more who we are became to strong to ignore.
I think you are right, until a person has the perception of something it does not exist for them. It’s like when one person in a relationship is devoutly religious or becomes so within the relationship. Unless you have a connection and real experience that brings you to God or religion you cannot relate to where they are. If someone is willing to understand they could empathise… If they are not then, sigh, it’s probably just not going to work… I think I might continue this reply as a post as it is getting a little long!
We can’t change a persons innate being, we can invite but if, for what ever reason, they close the door and lock it…
Love the last line of your comment – it’s exactly correct, and the parallel you draw to religion is equally spot on.
Thank you for taking the time to read, and for your very insightful comment.
“In an effort to explain how I see myself as a submissive, and my thoughts about D/s, I sent some friends a couple of links to some D/s sites. They informed me, that to them, these sites were pornographic.”
That jumped out to me. When I read this I, my first thought was: Did they label it “pornographic” because it may have turned them on in some way? Did they say anything else? Strong reactions are sometimes a window into a person’s guarded inner thoughts and desires. Of course, strong reactions can also mean they just plain hated it:)
I suppose context is everything here — and there are any number of factors that could influence why someone would react this way — but this particular reaction made me wonder.
And the statement “why can’t you just be normal/vanilla/whatever?”, drives me nuts. How would a vanilla react if we asked them the same? Why can’t you vanillas just be “normal” and stop enjoying slow, tender missionary with sweet nothings whispered in the ear?
I suspect the reaction might be similarly … less than positive:) Asking kinky people to stop being kinky makes about as much sense as asking water to stop flowing downhill.
Great post as usual, Maggie.
The ‘pornographic’ remark certainly leapt out at me. Were the images frightening, did they touch a nerve they didn’t want touched, or does the lack of tolerance suggest something else? It doesn’t really matter. If they don’t understand, they don’t understand, and so be it, but as I said in the post, it did make me think.
I absolutely love your two comments – “Why can’t you vanillas just be “normal” and stop enjoying slow, tender missionary with sweet nothings whispered in the ear?” BRILLIANT.
And of course, “Asking kinky people to stop being kinky makes about as much sense as asking water to stop flowing downhill.”
LOL. Thank you, Trent, for reading, and for taking the time to write such a great response.
I have to agree- I don’t think a person who lives D/s as a lifestyle can be happy for the long term with a vanilla person who refuses to so much as experiment. Maybe someone who enjoys a little play, but that’s it. I think of some of my Master’s dating history that He’s told me about- He has quite a few horrendously ended vanilla relationships in his past, but you see, He didn’t realize that there was anyone living this as a lifestyle until He met me.
but yes, your final questions make me think of experiences I’ve had as a queer person, of things I’ve read, friends I’ve watched their experiences. It’s so easy for the person happily in the majority to question why we aren’t.
Labeling something as pornographic is a tricky one- I find too often it gets used in place of “I don’t like this” or “I don’t want to like this,” as Trent intimated.
So I’m off to look at “Elizabeth’s Education” once I’ve shared this reply- ugh at the review. As much as I’m trying to get reviews on my 1st book and then on my free ebook too, reviewers can be a sore subject. I mistakenly joined a general “indie author review group” on Goodreads and got 2 fairly harsh reviews from 2 people for whom it was their first BDSM book- and I didn’t write “mommy porn” so it was over the top for them.
You’r observation – that the term ‘pornographic” is in place of, I don’t like this” or even more profoundly, “I don’t want to like this” is very switched on.
Delighted that you are going to check out Elizabeth’s Education. As a depraved person, I am very pleased that others found it equally depraved, and enjoyed it immensely. 🙂
Sheri Savill and I were discussing “dark erotica”- I’ll have to mention you to her as well.
Part of my observation comes from social justice work as a Unitarian Universalist. While as a faith movement, we’ve tended to be ahead of the curve on LGBT people, polyamorists and kinkters are still fighting. So I’ve had the conversations- “You say I’m talking about sex- I say I’m talking about my identity just as a lesbian would.”
Oh that’s really great. “My Identity”. Excellent. Thank you so much for this.
Why cant you just be normal? That is such a funny question. Whenever I hear someone ask it, it tells me so much more about them than about their perception of what I am not. You like what you like, they like what they like.
Keep liking what you like … and sharing it with us, we love you for it. 🙂
LOL I know right, “why can’t you just be normal?” Is there such a thing? It’s hilarious and exasperating all at the same time. “Like what you like,” there you go!
And thank you.
A very insightful post as always!
My comment is slightly off topic. I am intrigued by the fact that there seems to be many more women actually needing to be spanked or disciplined than men able/willing to satisfy them. Likewise, there seems to be more women reading Maggie’s (wonderful) books than men, and more women commenting here than men.
Is it that there is genuinely more women in D/S than men or is it that these men aren’t sophisticated or interested or curious enough to dig into the psychology of all of this?
Some comments?
Thank you, Olivier, for your comment and kind words.
It’s difficult to say, though I think, just generally, women are more inclined to read blogs and post comments. Not sure why I think that, just do.
It has been my personal experience, that there does seems to be less interest in D/s with men than, women, which is interesting, at least where I live. Vanilla men abound, and yet, in private conversations, my female friends are very intrigued and open to exploration.